Kinda Different is back again! Season 2 is here!
In this episode, Matt chats with Gary Bird, CEO of SMC National, about putting his team first, showing gratitude, and a holistic view of the patient journey.
You can find Gary and SMC National at the following places:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thegarybird/
Website: https://smcnational.com/
A lightly edited transcript is below:
Matt Allen
What's up, everybody? Welcome back to season two of Kinda Different, a podcast where we talk about dental care and we specifically talk about how we innovate in this space. We talk about how we make it more human and we connect with some amazing people. And I'm excited to be back with Season Two! This is the beginning of season two and why don't we kick things off in really exciting way? And so I was super excited to reach out to essentially who I think is the king of the dental podcast, Gary Bird. You probably already know I'm excited to chat with him today. I’ll let you introduce yourself, Gary. Just one more minute. For those of you who don't know me, I'm the CEO and co-founder of DifferentKind, Matt Allen, I’m really trying to help make the world a more human place and make our profession a more human place.
Gary, you are one of those people that is helping do that as well. So thank you for joining us on this very special episode of Kinda Different. Please tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll dive into the chat.
Gary Bird
Absolutely. So thank you so much for having me on. It was a joy to have you on our podcast and on marketing theory. And we got to talk through just what you're doing in the dental industry, which is exciting because it's it's very needed. That human connection is so needed, especially now with AI and all that stuff. Everything is machine, machine, machine. So the more human touch that you add, the better. It seems to work for everything. It just makes everything all smoother. But just quick background on me. My name is Gary, the CEO of SNC National. We are a dental marketing firm that helps dental offices like yours have predictable new patient flow so you can grow the way that you want. We're a people first company. What that means is, is that we put the health of our team first. When you make a business decision, there's kind of three lenses that you have to look through. You have to look through the business lens, you have to look through the client lens, and you have to look through the team lens. And a lot of people say, you know what, Gary, you should really put the customer first.
We've all heard that before and then we've also heard, you know, the company has to be first because if the company doesn't make money. No, no, no, no margin, no mission. Right. And I get that as well. But we have chosen the road of putting the team first and really trying to emphasize team health and company culture and measuring all of that. And that's been it's it's worked for us. We've been on the INC 5000 list twice now saying that other ways can't work. I just find that there's more opportunities for things to work properly by doing it this way. So we look at the team first, client second, and then how is that going to impact the company overall? And it seems like it creates more win win win situation for us.
Matt Allen
I love that. That's that's going to be my first question. My first question when I hear this is why?Right?!? Like, why did you decide to do this? To me, this is an innovative way of operating not only in our profession, but this role in general potentially. So, can you just unpack a little bit of your motivation and, why this kind of innovative approach?
Gary Bird
Absolutely. So I'm a knucklehead, so I do everything wrong and then hurt myself very, very badly and then go, Oh, okay. That's why, that's why not to do it that way, right? So I've done it all the wrong way. So we, we, I tried the customer first approach and what happened there is I ended up taking orders from dentists on how to do marketing for them. And then they fired me. So then it was like, okay, well, that's that doesn't work, right? I need to have systems that we really believe in that we know that this is going to work for you in a certain way, for certain people, a certain way that just it works, right? So that was number one. And then putting the company first on, hey, let's just make the most money possible doesn't really correlate well for anybody.
It doesn't it didn't bring a lot of fulfillment for me. Then it bring that didn't help the company grow and it wasn't great for the team or the client. So for me, it's just common sense that you're going to get the most the the best outcomes, most predictably over and over and over again If you put the team first and here's why you put the team first, then you tell them that your first job, because we're putting you first, is to put the client first and make sure that they're winning, which then by default gives you a by product of the company is successful.
So the company being successful is actually a byproduct, not the main mission, and that it just works for us. So and again, I'm not saying it would work for everybody because maybe there's something that I'm doing that it wouldn't work for somebody else, but it's worked well for us so far. I love it. Well, I think it really ties in obviously, with what we're talking about here today or whatever other people want work is to have people want to be fulfilled in that way.
Matt Allen
They want to work for a place that they're cared about. They're encouraged, they're built into. And it seems like you've unlocked the secret for all of us that we can all learn from. Now, the tricky part was measuring culture. So that's always the next question is, Gary, how do you know that you have a good culture?
Gary Bird
Like, do you just go out and say it? Or did you give out like free T-shirts and everybody super happy? Like how do you actually measure it? And that was something that really plagued me for a long time, because I will be honest with you, I thought the whole have a good company culture thing was just something that people use to sell books.
And so when I found out that that's not the case and it's actually the most important thing to actually grow in, at least if you want to grow and have your sanity and joy, why you do it. Company culture is huge because I'm the baby in the bathwater too, right? Like I'm part of the company. So if I want to be happy, I have to have a good company culture and otherwise I'm going to be stressed out. And having, you know, these talks and meetings that I don't want to be in. So I, we really reverse engineered it of, okay, how can we measure that? So there's two things that we do to measure it. One is a weekly pulse score and two is a quarterly eNPS. So the weekly Pulse score is every week. We ask the team to tell us on a scale of 1 to 5, how they're feeling.
Five is amazing. One is couldn’t be worse. And then in between there. And so it forces everybody to kind of say, hey, this is how we're doing. Now. Here's the controversial part. I ask them to tell me how they're feeling overall, not just at work. So if you have a sick baby, you know, and you had to stay up till 2 a.m. taking care of that baby and you're you're having a rough couple of days, We need to know that.
And what I explain to the team is because we're remote, if we were we were brick and mortar, then I could see the bags on your eyes. I could see that you were struggling and I could come support you. But because we are remote, I can't see that. So I might be wondering why aren't they responding as quickly, or why are things not working the way that they should?
But if they if they if we know what their pulse score is and we know that they're struggling and they put in there, hey, my post is low this week because my baby's been sick, then we can support them. And that's the whole goal is to support them. And and so that data actually gives us that feedback. Then we have, you know, company pulse.
So how is the company feeling overall? How is the each team feeling? And then how's each individual feeling? And then I can actually see all that data. So I actually go into all that data and I don't I never weaponize it ever, like for any reason, because that's so important is the trust level of once somebody knows I'm going to get in trouble for saying the wrong thing on the Pulse score, then it's useless data. So it's so I really I always just ask, how can I help make it better? That's my only question. How what can I do for them? And and and that's been huge. So that's our every week every team member has a one on one around their pulse score, and that's our human touch, so to speak.
And then from there we do a quarterly eNPS, which is an employee net promoter score.
So on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely would you be to refer see to a friend or family to come work here and that is blind so they can say whatever they want. They can be like Gary's a dirt bag, can't stand, etc. etc. and we got to see some of that right. Like I've had really strong feedback in there personally and it hurts.But again, we don't weaponize it. So and I don't know who's actually leaving the review, so I couldn't weaponize it if I wanted to. But what we do is we take that information, we go, okay, what does everybody and I've had to learn this, right? This didn't just happen overnight, but basically we take and we go, okay, what's the common things that everybody's talking about?
And then how do we make that better for them? And we try to take one or two things and we try to do that and we try to show them like, Hey, guys, we heard you, we're doing this. And it's funny because people are people and people change their minds. So like at one point it was like, we need more information in the team meeting. So I okay, no problem. Start downloading. And then, and then the feedback was too much information in the meeting you guys are giving to us. So it's like, okay, well let's go back a little bit. Let's find that sweet spot. Our last one, our last eNPS score was in, I think 68, right, right. Under 70, which is amazing for a we have about a hundred person team. So anything above like 30-40 is like really good. Our highest ever was like in the eighties and yeah, that's, I mean we just keep trying to make it better, a better place to work. I absolutely love it. I feel like we could have all got kind of series on just like company building companies and like what that means.
Matt Allen
I have so many thoughts there that I'm going to hold right now, but you're going to have to find Gary at a meeting or whatever and like asking about this, because we want to keep this short and listenable. One of the questions that I have that I think that might give us a little bit insight into you as I think about connection is ‘Tell us about a way that you like to show gratitude to people?’
Gary Bird
So I'm going to give you a super cheap and easy way to show gratitude that will blow people's minds. And I do it every day and it it works so well and it's so simple. Okay. And I'm not even going to give you like the mechanics of how to do it. Okay. So at the end of every day, you blocks I'm a block scheduler, so every day I have thank you's and 15 minute thing and I go through all my meetings. So every, everything, every interaction that I had that day and I try to figure out and I don't do it for everybody every single time, but I do for most people. So you're going to get one today for having me on, right? So you're going to get a handwritten note from me that's going to say something along the lines of, you know, Matt, great being on your show. I really appreciate, you know, all the value that you always bring. I love your perspective, etc., etc., etc., is going to be handwritten for me. And people lose their minds over that because no one sends handwritten notes anymore. Like you might get a handwritten note from your grandma for Christmas, if you're lucky. Outside of that, you just don't get those anymore.
And here's the best part. There's actually softwares out there now that you can go in and you can just type it in really quick and it'll handwrite it for you. I have horrible handwriting, like, I don't even want to. I'm embarrassed how ugly my handwriting is, but I write in all caps and I have a very certain way that I write. So I put that into the software and it actually handwritten. It's actually handwritten. I send them occasionally, send it to myself. And so it'll look something like this and those work so, so well. And people I've had people cry over them. I had one person, I was at an event and she said, Gary, I didn't know you were going to be here. I was sitting right next to her like, How have you been? She's like, Look at this. And she dug through her purse and pulled out this raggedy old car that I sent her. And she was like, This meant so much to me. I've had multiple people do that. Once I once I realized like, Oh, we're just not used to sending handwritten notes anymore.
I've just made it a habit. It's a part of my everyday life. I do it personally as well. Like anytime somebody gives me something or does something kind for me, I just want them to know that I appreciate them. I had somebody give me some hockey tickets so, you know, write them a note, takes it, takes 30 seconds and cost maybe two, $3 each time I do it. But it's it's just so impactful.
Matt Allen
Cool. Let's talk quickly about making dental care more human. And I think one of the interesting thing is SMC, right? Your company. You're a marketing expert. Right? So how do you feel like your company and you specifically are helping make dental care kinder .
Gary Bird
Okay, that's a really good question. Okay. So I'm going to wrap this. And so they right now what we're focusing on is we're getting away from just looking at dental marketing as a standalone thing that you kind of buy. And we're attaching it to the whole patient journey and we're trying to get offices to understand that marketing it cannot be any more successful than your front desk person. Your front desk person can't be any more successful than the hygienist, and the hygienists can't be any more successful than the doctor. And really everything begins and ends and begins around the dentist and then it works out from there and then the patient doesn't think of it that way, though they don't look at it compartmentalized. They just go, How easy was it to find them? How easy was it to get an appointment? How easy was it for me to get in? How easy was it for me? How long did I wait in the lobby? How how did I was I treated by the hygienist? How did the hygienist pass me to the doctor, how the doctor treat me in explaining? Did they rushed through it or did they or did they take the time to actually explain it to me? And then that result, if you do a good job of that, the whole thing has to be the whole thing. You either do it all well or you, or it all falls apart. Then the patient recurs and they come back. And then so you win as a business if that's tight.
So one of the things that I'm really pushing for and I've talked to a lot of people, if I just said their names, you would know them all the all the consultants that are in the the operational or culture space. And they all agree that someone has to own the patient journey in your office. And if it's all compartmentalized, then usually it falls apart and it's very rough. The hand-offs, the rough, the parts might be amazing, your marketing might be amazing or your front desk might be amazing. But if it's if someone isn't owning that and thinking about it holistically, it falls apart. And I really think that the marketing team should be the one that heads that up because they think about it in a different way than anybody else in the business.
So it's like a storytelling piece in general, like of, you know, how all of that comes together for the patient and like how that you tell that story to others like it. Because, because a marketing person thinks about the problem from a different perspective than a clinical person thinks about it. And again, they're thinking about it from the tip of the spear rather than from the middle of the storm.
Matt Allen
I think we could talk about this for days. For for everyone that's listening and for you and for me, I just want to thank you for coming on and sharing some amazing bits of wisdom with us. Obviously, you're building a company, a great resource and you're kind and generous with your time as well. So thank you for that. If people want to learn more about you, if they want to reach out to the company, how do they do that.
Gary Bird
if you want to talk to me directly, I’m Gary Bird on all social platforms. I actually deleted all the social media apps from my phone so I'm not great at DMs. I have a desktop is so clunky is what I do. Yeah but if leave you leave a comment. I'll see it like if you’re like. Hey Gary, I want to talk, I’ll see it. If you comment on any of my stuff, I respond to that.
Matt Allen
So thank you Gary, so much for taking the time. We're so grateful that you kick off season two of Kinda Different. We will continue to learn from people like Gary over the course of this season. Thanks for taking the time. We really appreciate it.
