How To Give Your Patients The Option To Choose with Misty Mattingly of Sage Dental

🍩 Like a co-worker who brings donuts in the morning, a new episode of Kinda Different is here to brighten your day!  Listen in as Matt chats with Misty Mattingly, Chief Dental Hygiene Officer at Sage Dental. Misty is a passionate advocate, mentor, and leader in the dental world, and her desire to continue to elevate the dental hygiene profession comes through loud and clear. Watch, listen, or read more below!

Listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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You can get in touch with Misty here:
Email: mmattingly@mysagedental.com
Website: https://mistymattingly.com
Website: https://mysagedental.com

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Transcript:

What's up, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Kinda Different, your favorite dental podcast about innovation in dental care. We learn about some of the most amazing people out there in the dental industry, and today is absolutely no exception to that. And we always talk about how we can make dental care more human.
I am Dr. Matt Howell, I'm the CEO, co-founder of DifferentKind, co-host for Kinda Different. And today, I have someone who is a true innovator in the space, but who is using that innovation to truly drive improved relationships and improve humanity within our profession. Somebody who is just doing a lot of amazing stuff, so I'm super excited to chat with her.
Misty Mattingly, who is the Chief Dental Hygiene Officer for Sage Dental down in the south. I think Sage Dental is mostly down in the south, correct? So Misty, thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
And not only are you Chief Dental Hygiene Officer for Sage Dental, you do a lot of other things, including host your own podcast, Hygiene Happy Hour, is that correct?
That's correct.
Yes, awesome. So another podcast host who joins as a guest, so she's going to tell a great story. It's going to be super fun.
I'm super excited. Misty, tell us a little bit more about you before we dive into the questions that I want to get to.
Yeah. So I'm Misty Mattingly. I am Chief Hygiene Officer at Sage Dental.
I've been a hygienist now for 20 years and was a dental assistant for eight years before that. I love dentistry. My first degree was in podcast journalism, so that's why I love podcasting or doing this because this is fun, gives me that piece.
It is, you know, I love dentistry. Let's just say that. Let's start with that.
And, you know, it is, how can I say this? My family and everybody would be like, this is all she does and talks about, and I absolutely love it. I do have a family as well.
And so I have, you know, two teenage boys and a daughter. You know, that's really kind of keeping me occupied now. But what I will say, as far as dentistry, you know, I've had the pleasure to work legislatively, you know, with multiple states and help, you know, I've helped Mississippi get anesthesia, local anesthesia for Georgia, lasers, working currently with Delaware to help them.
They are our last state. You know what's ironic is they're also our first state. Did you know that?
Delaware's our very first state.
The first state, yeah. It's like on their license plates, right?
It is, it's on their license plate, but they're the last state to ever allow hygienists to be able to do local anesthesia. So definitely we're working on that right now, or helping them try and get that going. You know, I work a lot with AI.
AI is amazing and, you know, work and rep a couple different products and different things that we use here at Sage. And it's just really amazing to see all that's changing in dentistry today. And, you know, I love the impact that we can have on, you know, our patients' lives and smiles.
Because, you know, a smile is, is, you know, worth a million bucks. And more than that, there is no value, right? Like there's, it's infinite.
Because somebody loves that smile. Somebody loves that person. They impact, right?
That that person is a human and that person cares for somebody else and somebody else cares for them. And so we really have, you know, as dental professionals have our big piece of our patients' lives, it's much more so than I think we often realize. The impact that we can have, you know, on somebody going out on a date, being, you know, being confident about their smile, being confident about their bad breath, you know, or not, or not having bad breath.
So they're confident.
I know what you meant.
Yeah. But you know, the gist of it is, is that, you know, we as dental professionals have an amazing job to do. And, you know, in all honesty, I feel like we're just at the beginning of it.
Because when you look at our profession, especially dental hygiene, dental hygiene has only been around 100 years. The medical profession has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. So there's so much that we still have to learn.
And I'm just honored to be able to be at the forefront and really help impact that change throughout, you know, the United States, throughout, you know, the world, honestly, because I've worked internationally on a few projects. And it's just amazing to be able to see because we can have a big impact, more so than anybody ever really thinks. I hate when people say, oh, they just clean teeth.
No, they are not. They are oral health care providers. And I'm really working to really kind of change that.
You know, in Europe, they call them dental nurses, you know, dental hygienist, dental nurses. And in the United States, we call them dental hygienists. But I really would love for us to get more to that, you know, dental health care provider, you know, and it not be, you know, one, this or this one.
Like, you're a health care provider. 100%.
Yeah, I love it. Well, thank you for sharing some great background. Obviously, your passion for this industry and this profession comes through.
So, super excited to chat. Let's dive into innovation and kind of talk specifically there. One of my favorite questions is the total motivational interviewing question.
So, you know, as we're getting ready, we're talking a little bit about motivational interviewing, and this is a total motivational interviewing question. So, if you could wake up tomorrow, wave a magic wand and change something about the profession, what would it be? Kind of give us that like, hey, here's my bit, here's the big pain point that I see, and obviously, I'm sure you have a lot of them.
But, you know, just wave that magic wand for us and fix that thing. What is it and why do you feel like that's such a priority?
I wish that we would see doctors and hygienists work together more than working in silos for their patients, right? And I think that's a big thing, and you see that even with like the ADA and ADHA. Like, you know, I've been an advocate of like, why don't you guys come together?
And, you know, especially because membership and things have kind of gone down for both. And I'm like, come together and create this, this partnership between doctors and hygienists and stop being, you know, the two kind of tell each other. Because I think that we in turn are hindering our society because we're not working together.
And, you know, I really would like to see more partnership between dentists and hygienists, you know, out there and there is out there. I mean, there's lots of great dentists. I'm not saying that, that there's not, because there is.
I mean, I've had the honor to work with some of the best that are out there. And I currently work with one of the best that's out there. You know, but I do see that throughout the industry on hygiene boards and things like that, that there's a really, sometimes there's a disconnect out there.
And, you know, I think a lot of times hygienists don't feel respected. And I think that's something that they really are striving for is for doctors to recognize their education, recognize, you know, the value that they bring and to work with them as a partner, you know, for the best overall care of the patients. And I think that's what really, if I had a magic wand, that's really what I would love to see because I think the patients win in that regard.
And like I said, I'm always going to be a patient advocate.
Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't, you know, I don't know what your perspective on this like, I do feel like the kind of great exodus that we've seen post COVID, right? Especially in the hygiene profession, but certainly like in the dental profession in general, I think it stems from some of like, you know, one of the, sometimes we've talked about this on this show before.
We'll shock no one. But the dentistry has kind of a paternalistic past and that generally stems from like this, you know, the dentist knows everything mentality and it's like, that's not good, right? It's not helpful.
And I do think that like, that especially in this post-COVID world where it's like, hey, like I'm going to find what's important to me. It's not that people necessarily want more money or, you know, whatever. It's gender disrespect issue that I think is really driving the core of that.
Like if I'm not going to be respected in my day-to-day work, like I would rather go find something else to do. So that's certainly like what I, you know, one of my hypotheses, especially for hygienists, like why we've seen kind of this exodus and why it's been so hard for dental professionals to or, you know, dental groups and dental offices to hire hygienists, you know, in this post-COVID world.
I agree. And I think also it's probably what also has driven some of the rates as well, because they're like, hey, if I'm going to not be respected, then this is what I want. And that's really sad to me that it has turned into that because it should be about the care for the patients.
But, you know, everybody's different and everybody has their, you know, W, everybody, I always say WWIFM, what's in it for me, right? And that's really what's in it for them. But I definitely think, yeah, I really would love to see that change.
And you're absolutely right. And I think sometimes we don't talk about it, but I think in order for anything to grow, right, for us to ever overcome and for us to become better, we have to be willing to talk about it and hear each other's sides. You know, last year I was on another podcast and it was Friend or Foe.
It was kind of like, they were asking like, is a hygienist a friend or a foe to the doctor, are they doctor hygiene? And, you know, it was really kind of torn because the doctors kind of felt like we were kind of the, you know, foe versus the friend. And I really, that's disheartening because I don't, that's not how I see it and how I've ever worked with any of my doctors.
But I do see it out there in the world that, you know, they are, some hygienists are mistreated. Maybe in regard, you know, same thing for doctors though. I think that we have to also be understanding to how they feel as well, because I think sometimes they do feel taken advantage of in some regard.
Yeah, for sure. It's an empty thing on both sides, but certainly I think that, you know, generally historically where the power has come from, right? Like you have to like be able to relinquish that in ways that are meaningful to invite others into power, you know?
And so my opinion is that that's certainly some of that rests on the dentist. And I love your idea of, you know, bringing together. We just had the first episode of season five of Kinda Different was with President-elect of ADA, so Dr. Brett Kessler.
I love that idea, right? Maybe Brett should hear that and, you know, this idea of, hey, this maybe could come together. I think it makes a lot of sense to me.
So I just always thought I'd hope that that would start begin to bridge the gap, right? To see the two kind of go hand in hand. I think it would be really cool.
And I think the two powers that be will be a much bigger power for the whole of the United States, right?
100 percent. Especially as we move towards really person-centered care, which is one-stop shops for stuff, and you can show up and get your health care, and your medical care, and your behavior health care, and whatever, all in the same spot. And all of those things, right?
Patients want that. And if we can't even get our societies in the same place, like how are we going to provide care for patients in those ways? So speaking of being person-centered, I do want to ask you a question about this, because I think that you'll have a really interesting perspective here given what you're working on and how you're thinking about it.
Obviously, being person-centered, I think it's so valuable in what we do in oral health care. And I especially think that hygienists have such a crucial role in that given that most patients are seeing the hygienist for the majority of the time and have those relationships that are deep and profound and meaningful. Patients will stay with a dentist that they might not love, but that they love their hygienist because they're like, well, this is the person I see most of the time, so I'm not leaving, right?
Why do you think being person-centered is so innovative? What about it? What about that kind of concept?
It shouldn't be, I think, in some ways, but I think there's still this, especially in the DSO world sometimes, it's still this, everyone wants to talk about EBITDA or whatever, and the patient care thing somehow comes later. But why is this idea of being person-centered innovative and how can we continue to drive that forward?
Well, in the DSO world or just in general, it's just not even the DSO world. Everybody's looking for, I mean, the whole goal of any type of business is to make money, right? But honestly and truly, I'm a big believer that production is a reflection of patient care, right?
And you can, you know, like if, like for instance, watch, right? We've been watching, you know, things decay for years and years and years in dentistry, right? We just watch it, right?
But if we have a way to be able to treat it earlier, yeah, it may cost, you know, $50 or $100 versus a filling of $300. I would much rather do it sooner and prevent that person, you know, from having to do the $300 filling. You know, now, I don't think that, you know, from a revenue standpoint, like some people think, oh, well, that's not, doesn't make sense.
Like, why would you do that? Because you could get the 300 later or whatever. But at the end of the day, it's about patient care.
Essentially, though, it also, it builds your practice, right? Because you create that patient experience with them, right? You're able to educate them on, hey, we have this area that we used to just watch, now we can try and treat it.
Let's at least try this, right? And it gives you the ability to build that relationship with that patient. And then ultimately, that builds more patients because they're gonna go outside and say, hey, oh my gosh, I went to the dentist today.
They had this cool, innovative product that they used on me, right? And some people will be like, oh, you're just trying to sell more things. No, it's not.
I'm really, really actually trying to improve the care of the patients and ultimately save them money, time, pain down the road.
Totally. So I'm guessing you'll agree with this, right? Because I come at this from the perspective, too, of shared decision making, where you're like, hey, what if you just actually, instead of just telling the patient we're going to do watch or we're going to do the innovative thing?
What if you're like, hey, we have some options, like there's some early decay here. We could wait and you could brush with your fluoride toothpaste at home and see if it gets better. Or we could do this silver diamond Florida, whatever it is, if we're talking about that, whatever.
It's going to cost you a little bit of money now, but it could save you from this cost down the road. What works best for you according to your values and desires and principles? How much more might not even build the practice?
Because now the patient's the one choosing versus us, whatever. Curious to even your perspective on that.
That's exactly how I set everything up. When I teach treatment presenting, I say give them a good, better, best option. Give them what's good, that'll be good enough.
Give them their better and then give them the best. They always get the option to choose. They just can't change the diagnosis.
The diagnosis is the diagnosis. But can you change how we treat it? Maybe we treat it with period trays, or maybe we treat it with a rest center.
Maybe we just do scaling and replanning on its own. Whatever that is for the patient as a clinician, it's our responsibility to have those conversations and give the diagnosis. That piece we got to make sure we're doing.
But then give the patient the options and give them that. It's exactly what you're saying, motivational. You know what I have found is they always usually go, nobody wants just the good one.
I mean, they're like, right? Everybody either goes the middle or the best. Yeah.
Because they're picking for themselves. Totally. Everybody was always like, they're always going to pick the cheapest.
In all honesty, they don't. They pick whatever is going to fit for them. Sometimes, yeah, it is the cheapest.
Maybe that's what's fit into their lifestyle right now. I'm empathetic to that. I was a single mom at one point.
I couldn't afford certain things and I also was raised by a single mother and also was in foster care for a little bit of my life as well. For me, I understand I'm empathetic to that because I've lived it. But some people that haven't, I get where that's difficult.
But at the same time, if you just train on like, okay, just give them a good, better, best option, let them pick. That really helps the clinician too and takes them out of it. I think that is also what brings a lot of value to us here at Sage is, we do allow those patients to make those determinations, and we're just giving you your options, and now you get to pick.
Yeah. I mean, that's just incredible practice building, right? That's incredible relationship building in general, so it's got to be good for practice long-term, right?
Well, you mentioned some pretty interesting stuff about your life. Let's move into kind of talking about you, and unpacking Misty a little bit more, right? So I learned something about you just right now, but I always love this question too, in terms of figuring out something like, you obviously have a lot that's out there online, you've got your own website, you've got your own blog, you've got all these things, social media, whatever.
But share something with us that's important to you, that a lot of people who are just searching for you online might not know about, right? So something that's just not out there super publicly, it doesn't have to be obviously your deepest, darkest secret, but just like, hey, this is what makes me tick, and you probably wouldn't find that just like looking online. We'd love to hear.
Well, I mean, I shared a little bit about being in foster care. I don't think a lot of people would know that about me, but I did spend 11 through 15 or almost 16. I was almost 16 years old when I did that with my parents or with my mom, not my parents.
So I don't think a lot of people know that, but I'm also a big believer that in mindset. I think that you get to choose what you're going to be in life, and that's something I'd learned very early on when I was in foster care. I was actually in a shelter called the Rainbow House, and it was Carolyn McCarthy, who was the house mom, said that I could choose who I wanted to be in life, and I still choose that every day, and try to work on that.
Then two, what's really important to me is to helping to give back. I really tried to mentor other professionals, but not only professionals, but like kids, because I was that kid. And I think that oftentimes, I try to go into the schools and help, and I love doing that, because you never know what their home life is like.
And a lot of people, I grew up and I didn't really share a lot that happened at home, if that makes sense, until it got to a point where I couldn't hide it anymore. And so I just always, my heart goes out to them, and that's something very dear to my heart, is to help young children. It's also one of the reasons why I help with mentor kids that are in foster care, I mentor at the school.
I'm also looking at maybe being a foster parent, because I know the situation. I mean, matter of fact, I set a football game on Saturday night and talking with a teacher, and they were telling me about a little boy that is in foster care and he was in a shelter. And he got, in Georgia, they get moved out about every 40 days, or at least that's what it was when I was.
And so I'm trying to work to help him or figure out how to do that. But that's a really difficult process, because when they're in state custody and all that, but that's very dear to my heart because I lived that life. And I'm very lucky that I got out, out to be honest with you.
But it was a determination that I have in that mindset, that I very, I switched that mindset at probably like 14 years old. And when she said that and I was like, you're right, it is my decision. Everything I do from here on out is my decision.
Because I always thought it was, everybody else is making decisions for me as a child. And that's one of the things I always tell the kids is like, you have a choice. You can be the one to get you.
So you had a bad evening last night. That doesn't mean you have to come to school and get in trouble. Right?
This could be your safe space. So let's make it your safe space. And so it's a cool thing.
I got more involved in that during COVID. And it's been honestly and truly, I get way out more out of it than I think they get for me.
Yeah. It's like the bumper stickers with the dogs of like, who saved who, right? And you're like, yeah, this is a place that you probably find a lot of joy and, you know.
Yeah, I do. I really, really do. And in 2020, probably more so that year, because that was a really difficult time for students, or for children, mine included.
But it was definitely a time in which, you know, being at the schools was really important.
Yeah. Well, I really appreciate that part of your history and how you're using that as well to continue to impact others lives. So thank you for sharing.
That's really beautiful. And yeah, it gives us, you know, just unpack a little layer of the onion, right? Like next time someone sees Misty at a conference, right?
They'll know just a little bit more about you. That, you know, will make them, yeah. It's like, hey, like, wow, what a, what a cool person.
I want to get to know Misty even more. So I absolutely love it. Well, thank you.
Great. Well, let's finish with Making Dental Care More Human. That's kind of always where we finish up the podcast.
You know, one of the things that I always love to kind of think about is, you know, you've seen a lot, I think, you know, in your roles and, and how you're doing this at Sage. And so one of the things that I, you know, we have lots of clinicians and, you know, different people who listen to the show as well. But I love that you're like working with, you know, directly with your hygienist coaching them.
And I think we've talked about some of these things. What's one small, like easily implementable tip that you think that like, hey, if you're a hygienist out there and you're not doing this, you should be, right? Like give us that kind of like, you know, Misty's magic, you know, potion here of just like, here's the one thing that like, I just want to make sure every hygienist is out there doing because it's so impactful.
Probing. You got to probe. That's the only way that you can assess your patient and be able to identify disease and be able to have the tough conversations.
That's got to be number one, you know, and it has to be the thing that you do every visit. You got to be checking every visit because that's what I see most often, is that they don't probe. And then, and then they're like, well, you know, all my patients are healthy.
I'm like, well, how do you know that? Are you looking? I guess they all can't be healthy.
Yeah. Right?
Yep. Yeah. It's like if you, to the point, to the point you made earlier, right?
Like you've got to have a diagnosis. And if you're not fully probing, like, you know, you're like, I saw something on LinkedIn the other day that was similar, right? I'm like, oh, I spot probe.
And you're like, well, was that like, if I just like looked at half of your teeth or a quarter of your teeth to like make a carrier diagnosis, would that be good enough?
Yeah. I hate that spot probing. Like that's one of my things.
Like it drives me nuts. Like even when I interview people and they're like, oh, I spot probe at the Paradotal Maintenance. I was like, well, what's the whole purpose of the Paradotal Maintenance?
And that's supposed to be like, we're supposed to check to see, it's a maintenance visit. To check to see how it all looks. You don't take your car in for a maintenance and then just lift up the hood.
Yep.
And they, you know, check the oil. They check it out. So that's where, and then from that, then that really sets the foundation for the rest of it.
Cause if you're always doing that initial assessment every visit, then you're really gonna help your patients and maintain their oral health, you know, throughout the years. But if you go 10 years and don't probe or five years and don't probe, a lot can happen.
Totally. Now, well, I appreciate that. I think it's a good reminder for all of us out there that, whether you're the ones doing the probing or whether you're the ones working with hygienists that are doing the probing, right?
That it is about that. We don't have good diagnosis and can't ultimately have it. The tough conversations, the good conversations.
Here's what we're seeing out here, what the options are like we just talked about, right?
Good options too. It's not just that, but you just have to have it to be able to have the conversation. I mean, it could be like, oh my gosh, you're in such great health.
Your gums look great. What are you using at home? Or it could be, oh my gosh, you have this many bleeding sites.
Let's hear what we can do to help you to get this back, get us going forward. But it all starts with that because that's the general thing.
Love it. Obviously, our company is called DifferentKinds, chosen intentionally for like, hey, we've heard a lot of dentists say, I want to be a different kind of dentist. What does that mean?
But then also just like kindness, right? My last question for you here as we think about making dental care more human and your work at Sage and just in general as a KOL in the hygiene space, is how are you making dental care different and how are you making it cut here?
How am I making it kinder? I hope I'm making it kinder by helping the hygienists love what they're doing. Because I think that if they love what they're doing, they're definitely kinder in how they treat their patients.
That's definitely, and then I'm also working with, one of my big focuses in 2025 is going to be all on emotional intelligence and help my teams grow in that area. Because that, we can't really grow our intellect, our intelligence, our IQ, but we can our EI, right? And so I really want to work with my teams over the next year to really work on their soft skills and that emotional intelligence to help them really get with their patients.
Sorry, my phone keeps ringing. I'm so sorry. You're good, no problem.
I really want to work on that with them so we can really improve upon that because as a society, that's what I think we're really struggling at. And I think that will bring more kindness into dentistry. And that's really what we're looking for here in your podcast.
And that's really what we're looking for, not just in this podcast in life, right?
That's people, right? Yeah.
Being kind is the way. And I think if you're just kind and you put good energy into it, you know, kind of talk about my background. But once, if you want to finish on is what energy you put into this world, you will get back.
So if you put kindness into this world, you'll get kindness back. And I try to live my life with those principles.
That's a great place to wrap up today, Misty. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us. If people want to learn more about you, you obviously have your podcast, you have a lot of things that you were doing, doing work with Sage, obviously.
Where can they go to learn more about you, Sage, whatever it might be, direct us to those posts.
Yeah, you can go to mistymattingly.com, or you can go, you can email me at immattinglyatmysagedental.com. Awesome.
Perfect. And I was on your website earlier today. I think it has links to your podcast at the bottom, and your Instagram, and some of those other places you can follow.
All of that. Oh, they don't work? Oh, well, the Spotify link works.
They work, they work, they work, they work. It needs more work, though. I feel like-
Oh, it needs more work. Gotcha, yes, for sure.
More work, because it's me working on it.
Totally, it takes time. It takes, it's a lot, you know, to do all the things. I totally get that.
But yeah, I do. Yeah, I did click on the Spotify link and it definitely did work. So yeah, so I was on your podcast page.
Thank you so much for taking the time. It really is a pleasure to chat with you. I've admired your work from afar and what you're doing at Sage.
And so really a pleasure to chat today more. Look forward to seeing you in person at a conference and understanding more about Misty and what's important to you and how you're changing, not just the dental hygiene world, the dental world, because dental hygiene is dentistry, right? So thank you so much and we appreciate you.
Absolutely. Thank you, Matt.

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