How a Zoomed Out Perspective Helps Dr. Katie Lee See The Whole Picture-dental-patient-experience-satisfaction

🔎 In dentistry, it's easy to fall into the trap of a smaller field of vision being better. 5x loupes are better than 2x loupes, a microscope is better than loupes, etc. But a smaller field of vision makes it hard to see the whole picture, whether that's for an individual patient's health or for the profession in general. In this episode of Kinda Different, Matt chats with Dr. Katie Lee, who has many different roles: a clinical innovator, a technology advisor, an author, a speaker, a KOL, and the list goes on. Listen in to learn how her broad perspective helps her zoom out and see things others can't.

Watch/read below or listen in on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

You can get in touch with Katie here:
Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/katieleedds⁠
‍Website: ⁠https://katieleedds.com⁠‍

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Transcript:

What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Kinda Different. I am Dr. Matt Allen, CEO and co-founder of DifferentKind, and your host for Kinda Different.
Super pumped to be back today with you, and excuse me for my voice. I feel like I sound like I have swallowed a pigeon or something like that, just like recovering from a little cough. So, apologies for my weird sounding, you know, like friend sexy voice or whatever that Phoebe had.
Apologies for that. I'm really pumped for our conversation today. Somebody that I, I'm really excited to talk to you today, from the perspective of, she has a lot of different perspective on different areas of the dental industry based on various roles.
So, I think we'll be able to provide a really kind of holistic or high level perspective that a lot of folks, you know, if they're only working in one specific space, can't actually understand all the different pieces. So, Dr. Katie Lee is with us today. She does a lot of different things.
I will let her tell you all a little bit about her. And so, Katie, thank you so much for joining. Tell us a little bit more about you and some of those many roles that you do hold, and then we'll dive in.
Yeah. Thanks for having me. You know, as you were saying that, I was kind of remembering that quote, right, of a jack of all trades, master of none.
And so, I started thinking like, oh, maybe I should start to focus on a little bit. But anyway, I digress. Yeah.
So, I've been a general dentist since 2010, and I was in corporate dentistry for quite a long time. Had a really successful career doing that. And then I sold out of all of my practices at the end of 2022.
I wrote a book on oral systemic health called Saved by the Mouth, which I'm really proud of. I focus on oral systemic health and the mouth-body connection. Also focus on dental implant surgery and training general dentists how to place implants.
I consult with practices, dental offices on how to ramp up their associates. Also help them integrate oral systemic health practices into their everyday kind of routine. A speaker educator, let's see, a chief clinical advisor for DIA.
I also set on a couple of boards for some other dental tech companies and product companies. And then I'm building a new oral systemic health clinic here in Colorado. Really excited about it.
That should be open in February. So it'll be a medical dental integrated clinic. There'll also be an airway clinic where we will treat sleep disordered breathing, and skeletal malformation.
So, you know, palatal expansion aligners, myofunctional therapy. And then it's also going to have a training and education center where we can educate patients and clinicians around the country on oral systemic health. So really excited about that project.
That's amazing. I mean, that's a ton of things, right? So I was not-
But now I'm like, I'm a master of none. I should narrow it down.
Hey, you know what? Like there is such a value in understanding how all the pieces fit together and being the ultimate connector of all of those things, right? So I totally love that.
And as somebody who kind of operates in similar ways, right? Like, yeah, there's some value to like only understanding one thing. But I think we're trained in dentists as a lot of, you know, it's like you look through loops and you'd like narrow your field ever, ever finer, right?
Yeah, 20x, you know, microscope has got to be better than a 2x microscope, right? But I think a lot of times it's actually better to take a step back and be like, cool, give me the like 0.5, you know, view on your iPhone, right? All of a sudden, the camera gets back, you can see everything, so.
Well, I think that's what's really interesting that you just said that is, I think medicine and dentistry is just becoming more specialized and more specialized and more specialized. You know, the further we get along in the profession, and what's happened is patients aren't actually getting healthier, right? The average life expectancy of an American has gone down, which is crazy because we spend more on health care than any other country in the world.
And so taking a step back and trying to look at the body and health as a whole and actually getting to the root cause of illness, I think, is beneficial to patients. And as you can see, I'm really excited about all of that. So I think that's kind of why I'm dabbling in a bunch of different things right now.
Totally. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it.
I appreciate your leadership in all of these things. So let's dive in. Let's start off talking about innovation.
And again, you hold this really interesting place where you're still doing some of this work. And, you know, being on the forefront of things like oral systemic connection and being on the forefront of telehealth and doing some of those things. But you're also an advisor at DEO, which is a venture capital firm that's investing in some of these companies and you're working with other startups, right?
So you have a really interesting perspective on innovation. As an entrepreneur in dentistry, right, who's built our company, we're always trained to start with the problem. Like, don't love your solution, right?
Like, love the problem. And so my first question for you is really around, like, what is one area of the oral health ecosystem that you think would most benefit from change at the moment?
Um, I think, well, oh, one, pick one. That's hard. Um, because I'm, you know, I'm a microbiome specialist, right?
Like, I focused a lot on the oral microbiome for decades. We've been focused on hypersterilization and cleaning of the mouth. But again, we're not making patients any healthier.
The rise of gum disease is increasing and patients are still getting tooth decay despite putting fluoride in our water and toothpaste. And so I think understanding or using technology to help us identify and understand the oral microbiome and then also utilizing techniques and technologies to help us improve the microbiome will have profound systemic effects for patients. So I'm really focused in that area.
And then also airway. I think airway is a major player in health. And statistics say up to 85 percent of people who have airway issues are undiagnosed, which is so scary and yet such a big opportunity for us, clinicians, to get in there and try and help patients with their airway issues.
Yeah, for sure. Definitely on the airway side, it feels like it's one of those things that's just been normalized of like, hey, if you're snoring like this, if you're breathing, you know, mouth breathing or whatever, it's like, oh, it's just normal, right? Yeah.
And airway is getting worse because obesity and being overweight is getting worse. And then also our jaws are getting smaller. You know, we're shrinking due to our diet.
And so airway is only getting worse. So we need to spread awareness about that.
Totally. Well, we've had on the microbiome side too, we've had Danny from Bristle and we've had Tina from Oral Genome on the podcast. And one of the questions that I have for you specifically around, so those are great testing companies out there that can help you understand specifically more about your microbiome and really look at some of the things that are going on in your saliva.
Are there specific things though that you work like that are easy for patients? Like let's say someone's listening to this and they're not a dentist, right? And are there specific things that you do that you're like, hey, this is how I help my patients think about this more holistically, or this is how I coach providers to help patients think about this a little bit more holistically?
Is there an easy tip or two that you would recommend to be like, hey, I might not have testing, but at least if I'm doing X, Y, or Z, that I'm actually contributing to this in a positive way?
Yeah, I'm a big proponent of actually getting a salivary test done, and now you can get access to them all the time. That's one of the reasons why I do telehealth, is because very few providers in the country actually do salivary tests. Not because they can't, just because they don't know that they exist or that they can provide that to patients.
So it's really easy to be able to get a salivary test. Bristol does direct to consumer even. So very easy for patients to get that test.
I think a lot of people are going out getting Everlywell tests, 23andMe, which a lot of these are finger pricks, and you have to bleed to get the results. Saliva test is just saliva, so it's painless and super easy to do. And so people are used to getting gut tests and 23andMe and Everlywell.
This is just another thing to check, because what I always tell people is what happens in the mouth doesn't stay in the mouth. I mean, we're swallowing a liter of saliva a day and billions of bacteria a day. You know, most of that bacteria is going to get destroyed in the stomach, but some of it's going to make its way through to distant parts of the body, which we don't want.
But the bacteria also burrow in through our gums and go to distant places. And so any inflammatory disease in the body is going to be affected by the mouth. So we're talking about brain health, so dementia and Alzheimer's, depression, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, gut issues, fertility.
Fertility is a really big one that I focus on right now, is oral health and fertility. So I'm a big proponent of trying to find a way for these patients to get tested, because I was just talking with a patient this morning who literally just got a cleaning at her dentist a couple of weeks ago. She's trying to get pregnant via IVF, so we did a saliva test on her.
Her dentist said she was fine. She's never had bleeding gums, never had gingivitis or gum disease, and her saliva test came back off the charts with all sorts of pathogens that affect fertility. So unless you test, you don't know.
I really believe in empowering patients so that they know about their health so that they can get the proper treatment and be the best versions of themselves that they can. So big advocate for testing.
There you go. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's one of the last, we had Steve Jensen from Dental Intelligence and he was talking about training for a marathon.
You get all this data in all these other ways in our life, but for some reason in oral health, we're like, we just don't have a lot of data, and we can do better than that now, and there are definitely ways of doing that for sure.
I think that's what's so excited and why I did join DIA is because in the past in dentistry, it's always been reactive, right? Let's look at x-rays, let's measure pockets, let's see what destruction is present, and then we can do treatment. We've never been preventative because we didn't have anything that allowed us to be preventative.
And now there's this massive tech boom in dentistry that's occurring, which is really exciting because it allows us to look down at the molecular level, see what's going on biologically, and intervene and intercept any kind of disease process that's occurring before destruction is visible. And that to me is so exciting, and it's really putting dentistry at the forefront of health care, which is awesome.
That's awesome. I love it. Tell me, I mean, so you're doing a lot of things, right?
Like, this might be a little bit like picking a favorite child, but I just asked you, like, what's the biggest problem, you know, that where we could use help? But what's, and so maybe it's similar, but like, what is the space that you're just most excited to be like working in right now? And that could be a role, that could be like an area of dentistry.
Like, tell us just like where you, you know, like when you wake up and you're like, sweet, I get to do this today. You know, where do you find the most joy?
Well, I mean, the most joy, I think, is in building my new center, because what I was finding practicing, and I'm sure you experience this too, you know, I was taking a certain approach to my patient's health care where I was trying to treat them holistically. And when I say holistically, I'm not talking about oil pulling and charcoal, right? I'm talking about looking at the person as a whole.
So if I see something in their mouth, or maybe I see that they have an airway issue, I need to get that patient to another health care provider that can treat whatever issue I'm concerned about that I'm not qualified to treat. But those patients would say to me, how do I find that provider? I don't have one, or the waitlist is four to six months, I can't get in, or maybe they have to drive 30 minutes to get there.
And so I was constantly seeing the same issues come up, but then patients not be able to have easy access to that care to get that treatment. And so what I'm really excited about this clinic is everyone's going to be in the same practice. So we're all going to think alike, we're all going to treat patients in a similar manner.
And so I really think it's going to be a benefit for patients to get all the health care that they need to be well in one location. I'm really excited to expand access to care for airway testing. Because I think if we can just get people tested for airway issues and sleep issues, I think rendering care, because in my experience, if someone finds out they have sleep apnea, they almost 100 percent of the time get treated for it.
It's one of those very rare conditions. It's not like gum disease when you tell someone they have gum disease, very few people actually accept that treatment. But with Airway, I feel like they all want that treatment.
So really excited about the new center that's opening. Then with Dia, Dental Innovation Alliance, what's really cool about them is, there's tons of VC firms out there. As a dentist, I want to dabble in business, but I'm not qualified to dabble in business.
I want to invest, but again, not qualified to figure out how to vet companies, to make sure that they're a good investment. But what's unique about DIA is they only invest in dental technology. And again, I feel like this has been an area in dentistry that's really lacked, is the tech.
And it's been a disservice to dentists and patients. So now that this tech boom is coming out, companies like DIA are really putting money behind these companies to get them out into the market, which is only going to benefit the profession and patients. So really excited to help them vet companies and make sure that they're legitimate.
What I'm really excited about DIA is they're not a typical VC firm and that they're only investing in dental technology, which is awesome because in the past, we really haven't had a whole lot of tech in dentistry. So to have a VC firm that solely focuses on funding dental tech companies to get them to market, that's a huge benefit to dentists and patients. But further, they have people like me come on to actually listen to these companies' pitches to ensure that they are vetted for clinical legitimacy.
Because you don't want to hand money to a company and their tech is crap, or it's not any good, or it wouldn't even fit into the workflow of an office. A lot of times, the tech is good, but then when I'm looking at it as how would I use this on a daily basis as a clinician, I'm like, there's no way that could fit into an everyday workflow of an office. So Dia is taking a very well-rounded holistic approach to vetting and investing in these tech companies.
So really excited to be part of that too.
That's awesome. Well, certainly with my background in FQHC, the idea of a one-stop shop for patients to be able to get dental and medical and behavioral health care all in one place, right? Like so valuable for patients.
And I think a lot of people look at that model and they're like, yeah, that's great for patients who have transportation issues or whatever, but it's like, that's not just for patients who have transportation issues. I don't want to have to drive across town, even though I have a car and can do that. If I can get all of my health care in one place, so amazing.
So love that model in general. Super excited to watch your center open and follow on. We're not that far from each other in Colorado, so maybe I'll come check it out.
Definitely. Well, in just time, right? Like I have a 15-month-old and thinking like, I might have a morning where I need to get everything done at one time.
Aaron's personal care, doctor's appointments, and to have to schedule appointments multiple different days, different weeks, different areas. I don't have time for that. So this is a big time saver for people too.
I love it. Okay. So obviously, you have a lot going on.
You're a dentist and you have all these different interests and you're doing a lot of different things. So let's learn a little bit more about you. One of the questions I think a lot of times that we get from people or certain I get from people are like, oh, you don't practice that much anymore.
How did you transition out of that? You're doing a lot and have found ways to satisfy all of the interests that are in your life. I think a lot of people find that hard.
Just help us understand some of the... And I'm speaking from my personal perspective here, those were normal decisions for me. I did this and then that led to this and whatever.
It wasn't always the easiest thing, but I had to be intentional about doing those things. You can't just wish it to happen and then it happens. Walk us through some of the concrete steps that you have taken to say, hey, here's how I'm going to transition out of my successful practice to find other fulfilling avenues within dentistry as well as maybe coming back to the clinical care in the way that you are to really see that happen.
So just curious to that kind of like journey a little bit.
Yeah. So my previous career, when I worked in corporate dentistry, I actually owned 84 practices around the country, and I was still practicing full-time. So I had my main office in Aurora, Colorado, worked there full-time, but was also flying around the country, helping support those other offices and expanding.
As you can imagine, that was insane. And so, but it served me for a very long time in my life where, you know, I had it in my mind when I came out of school, I just want to be the best dentist that I could be. And, you know, there's that saying of 10,000 hours, you know, makes you an expert or whatever.
So I just wanted to work really, really hard to become an expert at dentistry. And so that's the kind of season of life that I was in. And then what happened was I decided that I wanted to start a family and have a child.
And I realized that what I was doing was not conducive to that new lifestyle. And so once we got confirmation that we were going to have a son, I knew I needed to make a change because my focus had shifted, right? Like, okay, I've already accomplished this goal.
I feel like I am a good dentist, you know, but now I need to focus on my son and I can't do both. I do believe you can have it all, just not all at the same time. And so for me, it was easy to transition out because I had a new love.
I had a new passion, which was my family. But I still wanted to stay connected to the dental industry and feel like I was serving patients. And so the way that I was able to do that was to write the books, Say By The Mouth.
And so the whole book is about educating patients on oral systemic health. And it's a really fun, easy, cheeky read, high level overview of oral systemic health. But that was kind of my way of still contributing as a dentist to bettering the lives of patients.
So I did that, and that worked really well because I could work on the book around my son and his new schedule. And I worked with the wonderful people at Scribe who supported me the entire way to write that book. And so once that was done, I had people reaching out to me left and right saying, oh my gosh, I see the connection.
I've always had dental issues, and I've got issues as well. Where can I come see you? And I was like, well, I don't have a practice.
I'm not practicing right now. And so people kept saying, well, can't you do saliva tests for me? Or can you coach me on oral health?
And then I'd have clinicians say, can you tell me how to bring this into my practice? So for me, I think what is really important is I've always followed what the universe is showing me. So I try and pay attention to what's coming at me.
So instead of me trying to force my career path, I just kind of sit back and see what presents itself. For example, my previous career where I owned all those offices, that was never my intention. I never went out saying I want to own even a second practice.
All of those offices were presented to me as, hey, do you want to buy this one? Do you want to expand here? And so I think that's a really good lesson in my life is, pay attention to the universe because it will kind of guide you about what you're supposed to be doing.
So that's how I started my telehealth and consulting business. And along my oral systemic health journey, I met Kentucky from Dia and Tom Sharp because I was involved in Dentagnostics, which is a oral enzyme biomarker testing company that they're invested in. So they were part of that company, and I was at a conference for that company.
So that's how I met them. And nothing happened for about another two years, two and a half years. And then I got to talking to them about, it's great that you're a VC company trying to boost tech in the dental industry, but how do you even know if this tech is valuable?
And how do you even know if it's going to improve the work life of a clinician? And so when I said that to them, they were like, oh, well, we should probably have a clinician helping us with these investments. So that, I mean, they probably, I don't know, but I don't think they were really looking for, you know, a chief clinical officer at the time.
But because of our conversations, it led us down that path, which again was not my intention. So yeah, I mean, long winded answer, but I think the biggest thing is to not try and force life, instead pay attention to what life is showing you and go down that path.
That's really good. There's an old saying, you know, prepare the child for the road and not the road for the child. And I think that's relevant to what you're saying here of like, hey, you have to kind of be ready for those opportunities when they present themselves to you, not necessarily like go out and, you know, hunt and seek and kill all those opportunities, right?
Like you have to prepare yourself so that when those come, like that you're ready to actually.
Yeah. John Wooden said, when opportunity comes, it's too late to prepare. So that's one of my favorite quotes that I always remember.
And I used to be the opposite way, right? I think when we're in our 20s and we're full of hormones and stuff, it's like, I'm going to conquer the world and I'm going to do all this. And I think as we get older and wiser, it's, you know, we kind of tend to chill out a little bit and pay attention.
But it's really important to stay present. And I think it's very easy to not be present. I find myself getting wrapped up in busyness too much.
So I try and carve out some time every day to be still and to pay attention to what's going on around me, because I find that that's the best guidance.
I love that. One of the things that I've found most in running a company is that the place that I do my best thinking is I just go for walks, right? Where I'm like, I'm not sitting in front of a computer and I'm not just sitting.
I think a lot of people are like, oh, and I need to be silent or just listen. I need to be still in a quiet room. And you're like, no, that's actually, at least it doesn't work for me.
I'm like, if I just go out and walk, something's happening and my brain will start doing stuff. And I'm like, man, this is where I do. So people are always like, I see you walking around town.
I'm like, yeah, that's where I'm like, I'm thinking.
I'm doing my best in general. So earlier, before we started recording, I mentioned that I spend half my time in the mountains as well. And that's why I do that.
I go on hikes in the mountains or mountain biking. And that's where I do my best thinking. Or I do a ton of thinking when I'm lifting weights for some reason.
I should be focused on my form, but instead that's when all my ideas come to me. So, but that took a little bit of discovery too, right? Because I always thought too, oh, you need to meditate.
And then when you're meditating, like that's when you can quiet your mind to think. And I tried to force that for a long time. And what I realized was like, I don't do any of my best thinking when I'm trying to do that.
I'm actually, ideas are coming to me when I'm weightlifting or when I'm in nature. And so I try and cultivate that more.
I love that.
Yeah.
And you got to find that for everyone. It's probably different for most people. But just finding that thing that allows you to have that space is so crucial.
My husband, he shower dances. I call it the shower dance. I see him dancing and rocking and twirling in circles.
And then I'll see him kind of mumbling stuff to himself. And I'm always like, what are you talking? Like, what are you doing in there?
And he's like, this is where I think. And I'm like, oh, makes sense.
I love it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Gotta find your space. Shower dance. I love it.
He probably does a lot of better thinking in the winter, too, in Colorado. When it's cold, you're like, I'm gonna get out of the shower. I'm just gonna stay in here.
Totally. Totally. My water bill doesn't appreciate it, but that's where he gets to chill out.
So I'll take it.
I love it. Well, great. Let's move on to making dental care more human.
A question or two for you here. I think one of the things that, certainly at DifferentKind, one of the things that we're always trying to promote is like this idea of, hey, we want to go into these spaces and help make the practitioner-patient relationship more human, more authentic, more connected. And I think that we all generally want to see that as patients.
We all want that. And so one of the things that I always love to hear from people is when you think of yourself as a patient, because we're all patients. And even if it's not at the dentist all the time, or maybe it's with your health care provider or whatever, so feel free to think of yourself in whatever patient role you want to envision here.
Well, what's one thing that the care team does with you that really helps build trust?
Yeah, I love talking about this topic. And to be honest, you're the first one that's actually asked me about this. So that's why I got into dentistry.
So when I was young, I was in an ATV accident and it took four years and nine reconstructive surgeries to fix my face. But then it also took tons of dent. I had every dental procedure under the sun done to me.
And at first, before the accident, I actually wanted to be a physician, a surgeon. But the way I was treated by my physicians and surgeons was like I was just patient, you know, 1,752, right? There was no humanity to how they were treating me.
They were treating my injuries, not treating me as a person. And my dentist, even though I was going through all this other stuff and he couldn't really work on me and fix the things that needed to be fixed until, I could open my mouth wide enough for him to fix things. He always had this human touch and he spent time with me and tried to just show me empathy of being a high school girl going through what I was going through with no teeth, right, in high school, which was mortifying.
And so that's why I got into dentistry. So that patient aspect of care has always been really important to me and I think people get really nervous about the influx of all this technology at decreasing that human interaction between the dentist and the patient. But I actually see it as the opposite.
I see it as let's use technology to decrease the amount of time we're spending on practice management, patient communication outside the office, diagnosing actual treatment so that we can spend more time with the patient. So instead of thinking technology is getting in between the patient and the dentist, I actually think it's giving us more time with the patient, or that's how it should be looked at. So I'm really excited about incorporating all these different technologies, so I have more time with my patients.
Because I think spending more time talking with them and figuring out what their motivations are for better health. Do they even want better health? Are they there to get out of pain?
Or do they want wellness? Do they want education? Or do they want you just to fix what's wrong?
I think having time to ask those questions allows us as clinicians to better tailor our treatment. Because I used to always teach my docs. It doesn't matter what you want to do to the patient.
It only matters what they're there in your chair for. Figuring out what that is allows us to be, I think, better providers because the patients will only get the care that they are after.
Yeah, that's really good. One of the things that we'll often say to people as well, as we talk about motivational interviewing, some of that stuff is, I think people think of, yeah, it's obviously good to know about people, that kind of just like, hey, how's your kid? How's soccer going?
Whatever it is. But what you're saying here is, there's very specific conversations that can be had about their oral health that are beyond just us telling them what to do, and us learning about their goals, their values, their desires. We're actually moving forward on the progression of oral health, not just like, hey, here's a few nice comments about the weather, your kids, or whatever.
Not that those things are bad, but those things are never going to move the patient's oral health forward necessarily.
Totally.
You can do both at the same time, I guess.
And nobody is going, like I used to always teach my docs, like, you have to satisfy the patient's needs first before you can satisfy your own. So a lot of new docs, you know, when we get out of school, and I was one of them, we want to tell them that they have, you know, gingivitis or gum disease, or they have cavities, or they're grinding. We're trying to like shove all this stuff down their throat.
The patient might not care. And the more you're pushing that on a patient who doesn't care, the more they will resist you. They're not going to like, all of a sudden have an epiphany and be like, oh, you're right.
Like, I am concerned about all this stuff. If they come in for something specific, maybe they just want a regular cleaning today. They don't care that they have gum disease.
They don't care that they have, you know, cavities or whatever. They just want their teeth cleaned because maybe they have a job interview that they're going to or something, right? Satisfy their needs first, because once they feel like they've been heard and listened to and their needs are satisfied, they're more likely to open up to what you're wanting to go over with them as a clinician.
100% agree. I think a great place to leave it. Katie, we could literally sit here and talk all day.
Maybe we will over a beer down in Denver sometime when I'm down there. Really enjoying this conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to join us.
If any of our listeners want to learn more about you, the many things that you are doing and the ways that you're impacting the world, wanting to buy your book, whatever it is, where should they go? How do they learn more?
I would say the best two ways to reach me are Instagram. Katie Lee DDS, Dr. Dr. Surgeon, Katie Lee DDS on Instagram, and then katieleedds.com is my website. I have all the information there and all my contact information there as well.
They can also download a free chapter of my book. I always say, download the chapter first and read it. Make sure it's a book you want to buy.
Don't just go to Amazon first. I don't want to sit on the shelf. I want you to actually read it and enjoy it.
Sorry.
One last time for the podcast.
No. I'm so, so grateful. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today, your time.
Really just excited to have learned from you and gotten a chance to learn more about you and the work that you're doing. Excited for the new center that's opening in February. Thank you so much for taking the time and ultimately for helping drive some of the things that we certainly DifferentKind believe in in terms of, hey, we want to innovate, but we also want to make dental care more human.
You're definitely doing that, certainly.
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for having me.