Closing the Trust Gap in Dentistry: Why 51% of Frontline Staff Don’t Trust Leaders w/ Dr. Cory Scheer

On this episode of Kinda Different, Dr. Matt Allen chats with TrustCentric founder & CEO Cory Scheer about building high-trust dental organizations—and why it matters for growth, retention, and patient care. We dig into Cory’s research showing that 51% of frontline employees don’t have high trust in their leaders and the average 31% perception gap between executives and frontline teams. Cory breaks down his simple, proven Structure of Trust—two realms (people + policies) and three building blocks (competency, problem solving, care for others)—and we apply it to dental realities like AI diagnostics, workforce churn, and recruiting.

In this episode:

• The “half-life” of distrust: 51% stat and what to do about it
• The Structure of Trust: competency, problem solving, care for others—applied to people and policies
• From lagging scores to leading signals: moving beyond annual satisfaction surveys
• How continuous trust + PX/PRO data drives reappointment, steerage, and case acceptance
• Recruiting advantage: using real culture data in hiring
• River-guide leadership lessons you can use on Monday

Resources & mentions:

• Cory’s book: Closing the Trust Gap (TrustCentric)
• TrustCentric: frameworks, assessments, and short videos
• DifferentKind: patient experience & outcomes (PX/PRO) signals for dental organizations
• Giveaway: Want Cory’s book? DM Matt—DifferentKind will gift a signed copy to listeners.

Listen in on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, watch on Youtube, or read the transcript below.

Transcript:

What's up, everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Kinda Different, a podcast where we talk about innovation and dental care. We connect with some of the best people inside of dentistry, and today outside of dentistry, but also has a connection to dentistry, so it's gonna be super fun.
We also talk about how together we all can make health care, dental care, oral health care more human. I am Dr. Matt Allen, the CEO and co-founder of DifferentKind, and your host for Kinda Different. And I am super, super thrilled to be joined by a friend today, but somebody who's an expert in their field and who I've gotten the chance to work with actually a little bit over the past year or so, a little bit more, and we'll get a chance to talk about that.
Cory Scheer, who is the founder and CEO of Trust Centric. And today, Cory is gonna help us dive into the world of trust, what that means for organizations, how we can think about it. But in addition to being just an amazing thought leader in this space, author, Cory is also an amazing raft guide.
He's also an amazing runner. So, you know, we have a lot of good things in common. My wife and I are headed out in the river tomorrow.
Just got back from a run, right? So we have a lot in common here, Cory. Thanks so much for joining me today.
Please give us a quick overview of who you are, and then we'll kind of dive in.
Yep, Matt, thank you so much. Really happy to be on the podcast today, and it was great to see you just a few days ago. It wasn't that long ago in the mountains.
We had a great walk and watching the leaves change in a great time of the year, for sure. And yeah, I would say, in terms of a little bit about myself, most important to me, my family, family of four kids. My wife and I, we live in Kansas City, but we do have a place in Colorado.
We try to get out there as much as we can. I found out my company, it's called Trust Centric, about five years ago. Then two and a half years ago, made the decision to go full time with this work and have just really, really enjoyed the opportunity to come alongside leaders and teams and organizations as they navigate the complexities and the crucial reality of maybe some of the trust dynamics that they're experiencing.
So we try to develop tools and resources and assessments that help leaders and teams measure and maximize trust. That's what we do. We want to be able to measure it so that we can then apply a proven framework to it.
And then once we apply a proven framework to that, we're able to do something about it and take action on it. So that's the work I get to do all day, every day, and I really love it. And it's, you know, it's industry agnostic.
So it applies to small businesses, large businesses, corporate, nonprofit, city, state, government. You know, it's, there's no, there's no, basically there's no need to think about trust in like an isolated industry because it applies across the board. And so that's what I'm finding out more and more.
I was with a group of bankers on Monday night. I was with a nonprofit organization 30 minutes ago. I was with a group of community leaders this morning.
I mean, it's just, it's all over the place in terms of the need for focusing on workplace culture and organizational trust. So it's a privilege to be able to do what I get to do.
Totally, man. Well, let's start with a pretty obvious question here, right? I mean, you just gave us a pretty good description of, you know, hey, here's who I am.
Here's what I do. Right. But I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a number of people at least talking about this out there.
Right. And you're talking about applying frameworks and all this stuff. You know, why should we trust yours, right?
Like, you have a framework. You have something there that, you know, is there. Like, tell us a little bit more about, like, the research and, you know, kind of that you have done and, you know, how you've developed that framework.
Yeah.
Great, great question. Thank you for asking that. So I originally was introduced to this theoretical construct in my doctoral program at the University of Missouri.
And since I hadn't written the dissertation yet, I needed to utilize a theoretical framework to use that was already peer-reviewed and proven in other industries in order to run my research through. So I used this original theoretical construct to do that and then ran all of my data through it. I applied it within the space that I was doing all of my research in.
And then as a result of that, over the last decade, I've really been building upon it, kind of expanding that out, clarifying certain things, packaging certain things that are connected back to this original theoretical construct. So it's a framework and in the usage of it originally, it was within the commercial, excuse me, the retail industry and then also the commercial airline industry. And then I applied it into more of the higher education space and then have expanded it through my organizational work that I've done, my teamwork that I've done, and then of course, as an executive coach for different leaders.
And so just taking it, packaging it, talking about it differently, but really staying true to the very essence of the framework itself. And I've been doing that now for the past decade. And then I've also done, we did a national study, it's called the National Survey on Brand and Trust.
And that was co-authored by a gentleman by the name of Kurt Bartolich, who runs a company called Brand Certain. So he's a brand strategist, but he does it all via quantitative assessment. He's not on the creative side, he's on the quantitative side.
And we deployed this out and went to 1,700 participants across all industries. And we were fortunate to be able to utilize Kurt's expertise because the confidence level was well north of 95%. So we feel really good about the data and about the framework.
And then now really practically, as we work with lots of different clients, we're seeing them actualize it. And we're seeing them move the needle on workplace culture and trust. And they're making significant gains in their culture, which is affecting things indirectly and, most importantly, directly, like revenue, clarity around their plan, engagement, advocacy, loyalty.
All of those really critical key performance indicators are healing, in some instances, or strengthening in others, or they're maintaining a strong level that they have already had. So that's where it's been fun to watch it go from just a theoretical construct to then applied in my own doctoral work, to then proven out in the national research, now proven through the client work that we get to do. It's been a lot of fun.
Sweet. Well, you failed to mention there too that you did write a book about it, right? I did.
I have it near me. So yes.
There you go. Perfect. Yeah.
It's right here. It's called Closing the Trust Gap. This was a book that I wrote a little over a year and a half ago, and it contains all of that theoretical framework.
I call it the Structure of Trust. It contains the high-level work on the national research, and then also just some stories in terms of how this is applied in just very practical day-to-day ways. So yeah, the book is, that's a bit of a labor of love, but it's also a bit of a calling card that I leave behind.
I don't even carry cards with me anymore. I just give out books.
I love it, man. That's awesome. And for anyone who is interested, definitely recommend reading the book.
Thank you for sending me a copy when it was written. But also, can you just kind of quickly walk us through what that structure of trust is for folks who might not be familiar with it? Like, can you give us just a quick high-level overview?
Because I think it really is formative in terms of us thinking about, like, okay, you mentioned earlier quantifying trust, right? So what are we quantifying that across? Like, give us just a quick, you know, high-level overview of that.
Yeah, it's one of the things I love most about the framework is that it is really simple and therefore it's repeatable. And then, you know, people can, you can equip people with a framework and then they can actually do something with it. So it's made up of five components.
So it's made up of two realms and three building blocks. The two realms, if you kind of think about, like, the vertical buckets or realms where trust is built up or broken down, it's built up or broken down, of course, with people. That's obvious.
That's typically how we think about trust because it's so relational. But just as important, trust is built up or broken down with policies, with practices, and with plans. And so these two realms where trust is built up or broken down, they're obviously constantly interacting with each other within every organization.
So people are carrying out policies, policies are informing behaviors of people, all of that. And there's this constant movement that's occurring there. The critical part of the structure of trust is really the three building blocks.
So the three building blocks of trust are competency, problem-solving, and care for others. And this applies both internally within an organization and also externally. And it's not just about having competent problem-solving people who care for others, it's also about your policies and your practices and your procedures, all demonstrating those three building blocks of trust as well.
So competency is time management, project management, technical ability, fiscal management, risk management, communication, and of course the leadership is a competency. Problem-solving is pretty self-explanatory, but using data to think critically, collaborating, ability to disagree with each other, to come up with a solution creatively, whatever the case may be. That's where innovation really sits within the structure of trust.
Then the third building block is care for others. So demonstrating empathy and sympathy and compassion towards others, listening actively, and demonstrating care for the needs of the whole person, physical, social, relational. So when all three of those building blocks are applied to the realm of people and to the realm of policies and practices and planning, it creates a dynamic where there is a high trust environment.
And we know that, and I've seen studies specifically within the medical field, that when hospitals specifically in this particular case, when they apply and they apply high trust behaviors to all that they do, the results on things like patient loyalty, patient advocacy, revenue, all of those critical indicators within a healthcare space, they go up. And it's very, very significant. And so it isn't just kind of like, it would be kind of a nice thing to have.
It really does become an organization's greatest advantage when they have high trust environments, high trust people, high trust policies and practices. And so it's what we should all be striving for as leaders and as teams and as organizations.
Okay, so we have not, you and I have not prepared for it. Nobody think we've talked about this at all. So I'm gonna like, we're talking about innovation right now, right?
And how you're innovating in this space and how you're kind of bringing this to a lot of different areas. I'm gonna give you a specific example in dentistry right now and just kind of hear you process it real time through this lens, right? Because I think it's really important.
One of the things that I see currently, so big innovation in dentistry that's come out in the last five years or so, right? Has been this AI radiographic interpretation, which is essentially like a second opinion for a patient, right? And there's a lot of marketing language that talks specifically about, like, this helps you build trust, right?
And in the same way that I ask, like, why should we trust you? Here's a whole list of qualifications, right? That's like, that's important, right?
Like, we have to be experts in our field, and we would want that AI to be trained on these pieces. But one of the things that I look at when I think about that is, you know, it's not the only way, or it's not the only thing that you can have as a part of your organization, right? So, you know, if you're just like, hey, we got this new tool that's gonna be the software that, like, tells you actually really have a cavity, you should trust us, I think organizations are probably gonna fall flat with that.
So when you think about this idea of, yes, there is this tool, but, like, how might organizations come around that tool, you know, to say, hey, yes, like, we care about this, we want you to trust our decisions or trust our diagnoses is really what they're saying, right? You know, how do you kind of think about that more holistically applying it through the kind of structure of trust and the three building blocks of trust especially?
That's a great question. So, and a perfect example of how organizations can begin to filter day-to-day decisions, long-term strategy, you know, systems level evolution through this lens. So that you're talking about something that is representative of policy or a new practice within a practice.
You're not even talking about like a personnel dynamic. You're talking about like this is just strategy. So you can apply that because that fits within that realm of policies and practices and then future planning.
So what I would do is I would facilitate it through like, okay, does this AI solution, like does it increase our competency? So is there an enhancement of the technical competency? Is there an opportunity for us to enhance our time management?
Does it increase our fiscal management? Does it make us more efficient? Does it increase or decrease risk management?
Does it allow us to communicate effectively because of this? And then finally, does the AI solution allow us to be leaders within our industry? So like if you can say check, check, check, check, check to all of those, then that kind of passes that competency test.
So that's one building block.
Right, and that's so sorry to interrupt you, but I feel like that's where like so much of it stops, right? It's like, well, we are more competent. And there's studies, right, that show like, great, you're a better diagnostician, you're doing whatever.
Great, like, but one of three, right? So keep going.
That's one of three. And so then, you know, then the next thing is, which, by the way, we're kind of a competency-driven culture. This is how we hire people.
This is typically how we make decisions. Like, is it competent? That's important.
But again, like you said, it's only one of three. It's kind of like a three-legged stool. You have to have all three legs.
So next one is problem solving, which becomes, it can become very clear, but it can also become more nuanced. So number one, what are the problems that this solution is intending to solve? Number two, what are the potential problems that it could create currently?
Number three, what are the potential problems that this could create two, three, five years down the road? Which as you and I both know, the further out you get away from today, the less data we have in terms of our certainty of being able to assign a strategy towards it. So like there's a chance there that what could be in two or three years, we could never even anticipate it now.
So there are potential problems. This is where one of the activities that I lead with teams is, let's just do a worst-case scenario. So let's just say that we implement this technology.
What is the absolute worst thing that could potentially happen? Let's name it, like let's get all the fears on the table, and then let's make a decision on how we're going to manage against that becoming a reality. So like this is an example of that's the lens of problem solving to say, wait a minute, let's pause and think about worst-case scenario.
And then finally, care for others.
I'm gonna interrupt again before you keep going into the final part because I'm interested to hear about that, right? And you're talking about that from an organizational perspective. And I think you could think about that problem-solving perspective from a patient perspective, too, of like, well, what's my problem as a patient?
Does this thing actually help me do it better, right? And maybe there is more competence, so there's a level of trust that you have. And like, well, I know the diagnosis is right, but that still doesn't take into consideration any of my values or any of the things that I actually care about.
And so if you can't do that as a dentist, right? You don't have the ability to have values and form the treatment planning process then, right? To say, hey, what works best for you, right?
And how you might essentially go through that problem solving exercise, which it really is a problem solving exercise with the patient, yes, you have a better diagnosis, but you still actually haven't done anything around that next piece, right? And so, and I think that gets into care for others, right? Which is the third part.
So I'll let you keep going, right?
Yeah, that's a great comment and a great segue into the third and final one is really around, is this, does this particular solution, does it allow us to have more opportunities for, whether it's our patients or our employees, does it allow them to experience a deeper level of care for them? So are we, does it allow us to listen better? Does it allow us to demonstrate compassion?
Does it allow us to comprehensively care for the needs of the whole person? Or is this solution, maybe it's yes for two of them, but only one, you know, but not for the other. So for example, do you have a solution where it's highly competent, it solves a ton of problems, but in the end, it makes it less personal?
Maybe.
Or do you have a solution that is very, very high on care? It's fine on competency, but it kind of creates downstream problems. So like, these are the three building blocks that you want to kind of continually work these things through.
It's the same thing that goes with people as well. And where it starts is, it starts with me. Am I being competent?
Am I demonstrating the appropriate problem-solving skills? And then am I truly demonstrating care for others? And I would say for me, you know, kind of vulnerably speaking, like I've had to learn the building block that I've had to work on the most in my own life, with my own personality, all of that is care for others.
I have to deliberately slow myself down to say, okay, whatever competency I'm bringing to the table and whatever problems that I have to go solve, I've got to be deliberate about demonstrating care for others. I've got to listen, I've got to listen actively, I've got to show compassion for others. So that's where, you know, we have to, as leaders, we have to make sure that we're evaluating how we're doing with that before we can start applying it with other people and then also our policies and our practices.
So it's a really good example that you gave of, then the other thing is, as you gave that example, the thought of, if we could then co-discuss, co-create a potential solution or scenarios around it, the very act of doing that as opposed to saying we're doing it, let's go. The very act of doing that is trust building inherently. So like, that's again, as you keep trust at the center of these types of conversations, you're naturally going to strengthen the culture, make better decisions, and it will ultimately lead to better results.
And we experience that all of the time as customers or clients, as patients ourself, when we are experiencing an organization that we have high trust for, we're going to naturally value it more, and we're going to absolutely be more loyal to it. And as we are more loyal to it, we will continue to tell others and we will become that organization's best marketing mouthpiece.
Yeah. Love it, man. Okay.
Well, we're going to get, come back to some of that as we talk about like, how do we make dental care more human in some of that in just a little bit. But, you know, because we have the privilege of knowing each other, you know, kind of sharing a physical space, you know, at times here in the mountains of Colorado, I want to kind of just dive into a question for you, specifically around you, of you were a raft guide, right? I don't know if you actually trained my wife as a raft guide too, or was.
I did, actually. Yes.
Did you train, did you train, Sean? I thought you did, or had some role in that. But just like walk me through a little bit of how that kind of was formative for you, and like what you learned, and some of the big takeaways.
Now that you're like, you're not actively training young raft guides anymore, right? But you're still on the river, still doing those things. But how has that kind of been formative for you in terms of how you see the world, how you process the world?
It's such an interesting kind of job that I think I'd love to hear a little bit more.
Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, my time in Colorado, and I spent 13 summers on the water, eight years on full-time staff. And I think I've got around 8,000 commercial river miles.
And so, I've been on a lot of water, still do it recreationally with my family. Now, my two oldest kids are also certified as raft guides as well. But so much learning on the water.
One of the things that I realized reflecting back is, I was given way too much responsibility as a 23-year-old. So, that became very evident as I got older and older. But that was very much a leadership laboratory.
And I think one of the things, the privilege of working for an incredible company, and I think one of the things that I've reflected on is, we intuitively were committed to as much competency as possible in order to make sure people feel safe. We of course had to solve problems. We're in a natural environment as the water goes up and down, and all of the things that can happen on water.
And then third, what I think really separated us from, you know, in terms of making us a company that people really respected, it was how we demonstrated care for others. Not in like a soft way, but like, we're still very kind. We're very clear in our instructions.
We're clear in our risk management. We care deeply about people's experience. And so little did I know that we were obviously in this environment where I was kind of living out and expected to live out the structure of trust.
And then it took me about 15 years to actually put a framework to it. But I was really, really fortunate to be in that. And then, of course, so many analogies on the river in terms of, you know, just the navigating through so many challenges organizationally through there are different routes on the river, how the river dynamics change with different conditions.
I mean, there's a lot. In fact, interestingly, on the corner of my desk, I keep a map of the Grand Canyon, which I've had the privilege of going down with my son. And this river map is it's as an entrepreneur, as somebody who is like in this space where I've never known what's around the corner.
And so like, but I have to lean on the skills that have got me to this point and trust that I'm going to be able to navigate it as best as possible. And so that's been I appreciate the question, because it's it's affected me very deeply. It's been extremely formative in my own development.
I love it, man. Well, I think it's interesting. Like I think this this metaphor applies, you know, across all of our lives.
Right. Like we had a friend who lived in Africa for a little while. Right.
And when he left Africa, he got a tattoo of Africa just like right here on his arm. And it was just the outline of Africa. And he was like, I'm going to get it filled in someday with like what I've really learned about what Africa meant to me and how it shaped me and whatever.
You know, after many years, right? It still doesn't have it filled in. But I think we all have those Africa moments in our own life, right?
Where somewhere early on we have some formative or kind of really, just really crucial part of who we are. Right. And it's like, but then it becomes much clearer later of like what that thing is only once years go on.
Right. And so it's fun to hear your reflection back on that of, hey, this is what it's meant to me.
It's been incredible. And then to see my two older kids engaged in that and then kind of bringing it back to a bit of the conversation around trust. One of the things that we found in our national research is the decade that is the highest sensitivity to workplace culture that has strong trust.
It's the decade of 20 to 29-year-olds. And like that's really, really powerful in my mind because it's like, talk about those formative years, that first career, the first full-time job for a lot of people. And so to know that we have a decade age group right now where they have the highest sensitivity towards workplace culture and organizational trust and when they don't experience it, when they don't sense it, when they don't believe that this is actually what that organization is truly committed to, they are the fastest to leave that organization.
So that kind of paints a different picture on why 20 to 29-year-olds, why we need them so much in our organization because they're very sensitive and they should be to high trust workplace cultures and we are held accountable by the fact that if they don't sense it, they have a higher propensity to leave.
Yeah. Well, I mean, that's a perfect transition probably then into our last segment, which is really how do we make dental care more human? And we obviously have some shared ideas on this.
But I think the problem that we're seeing in oral health, certainly that perfectly goes hand in. Again, I don't actually know if you've ever told me that, but it certainly makes a lot of sense based on what we're seeing in dentistry. Is that you have a lot of young dental hygienists, dental assistants, even young doctors who are like, whoa, this was not my expectation when I came into this organization, and they're quick to leave.
And that's really, really, really been like hamstrung the dental profession, I would say, especially since COVID, where there was a lot of reorienting for a lot of people in general. But people have left and never come back to the profession in general. But certainly, I think, more than ever, we're seeing that, hey, I'm not going to stay at an organization where I feel like I'm just a cog in the wheel, where I feel like you're taking advantage of my skills for gain of leadership or whatever it might be.
And so we have this really big workforce problem in dentistry right now. And so I think the interesting thing that we've then talked about is we've been able to work together as DifferentKind and TrustCentric to say, okay, how could we actually apply this to solving that problem in dentistry, and really building what you've done into a kind of tech forward solution that helps dental organizations understand trust within all levels of what a DSO or dental organization might have from C-level executive all the way down to front desk, just started, you know. So walk me through, and we can talk a little bit more about that in terms of the products, but walk me through just a little bit more of your view then on, it would make sense that if dentistry has this huge problem of keeping people in their jobs and probably has a trust problem, right?
Obviously, we see that in health care probably in general, but give me your perspective, I guess, just on that and dentistry in general.
Yeah, you bet. I had the privilege of working with other health care organizations directly, and so not directly in the dental space like right now in terms of my consultative work, but certainly within health care in a few different ways. But a couple of things.
Number one, the reality is that across all industries, there are gaps in trust that are significant. So we know from our national research that two things that stand out. Number one, 51% of frontline employees do not have a high level of trust for those leaders.
That's the baseline. So I call it the half life of distrust. It's just like boom, out of the gate, 51%.
The second thing, and the reason why I wrote the book, is there's this very significant gap that occurs between the senior level leaders of trust and workplace culture compared to the frontline employees or individual contributors. We measure that and that gap on average across all industries between what a leader thinks that the workplace culture is and what frontline employees and individual contributors thinks it is, is 31%. If you just apply, if you were to drive down the road in a car and you applied 31% less power to your engine, of course, it's going to have a significant effect on your overall experience, and it's not healthy at all.
That's just the general reality. The other challenge that I think organizations have is they focus more on the satisfaction measures, which are lagging indicators as opposed to really identifying some of those root cause challenges, especially internally. If you deploy a satisfaction assessment or an engagement assessment to an employee, those are lagging indicators.
Those are scores of advocacy. That's after the fact. They're important.
But if you only are looking at your lagging indicators and not truly understanding your root cause, then those lagging indicators will persist. Typically. So the encouragement and the opportunity, and this is where you and I have had a lot of conversation, and we're developing this whole idea of, if we could take a look at our workplace culture through not only the lens of satisfaction, which is critical, but also through the lens of employee trust and workplace culture, then we know, and this is, again, what the research shows is that when we look at trust and when we strengthen trust, it increases the value that the employee has in their experience, and it deepens their loyalty.
And so if we're only looking at loyalty, we never have the opportunity to address any potential gaps in trust. And so this is where if you look at it from both sides, now you can start to have a clear understanding of what's actually going on. And you and I, we've talked about this, you know my wisdom tooth story, right?
And so they were doing a lot of work on my wisdom tooth, but they actually had to take another set of x-rays in order to understand what was really going on below the surface. And until they did that, until they understand literally the root cause of what was going on, they were not able to apply the appropriate care.
Yeah. Well, I think one of the interesting things that you're just talking about there too, that I think, you know, is a gap probably for a lot of organizations. Certainly, we see this in dental, right?
Is a lot of this kind of assessment is, you mentioned kind of like satisfaction being the lagging indicator, right? A lot of it is just like a yearly checkbox, right? And I think that that's where a lot of organizations probably struggle with this as well, where you're like, oh, we had a training and then a year later, we're going to do an assessment and that's really like, okay, then we see some problems, maybe we have one more training, we're going to do it again in a year, right?
You're not able to understand how people are experiencing that culture in real time, like whether there is trust there or not, whether the small things that you might do on a monthly basis or a quarterly basis for sure, or actually having the impact that you want to see. So it becomes a really hard data set to read because you just essentially are like, well, this checks the box of like I have to do this yearly, I think I should do this yearly even if you don't have to. But what is that more nuanced view of like, well, your organization is certainly probably ebbing and flowing in terms of trust over the course of the year and what are those things that are actually moving the needle for your organization?
Talk to me just a little bit more about how you've seen that play out in organizations and how you can see it driving like, hey, this is where we want to go.
Well, what it does, and this is what you all do so well, but it keeps the appropriate data top of mind and allows the data to help inform action. It's not just snapshot. One of the other challenges of typical satisfaction surveys is just compliance.
It's typically like 25% to 35% actually even complete the employee assessment. So how do you increase the compliance? How do you make it more conversational?
How do you increase the frequency and make it meaningful? And then this is where the clients that we work with, that they really are seeing a change is when they apply the components of the structure of trust in response to what their data is actually telling them and then develop a meaningful practical plan to move the needle. Those three steps.
We've got to measure and assess. We have to apply the structure of trust. We have to take action with an actual plan.
When those three things are put in motion, that's where they start to see momentum. And it has a ripple effect throughout the organization.
Totally. Well, last question here, because we could, I mean, we have talked about this all day at various points, right? But so, you know, we're talking about it also from like people who are in the organization.
I also feel like there's a huge opportunity for organizations to think about this from the perspective of recruitment as well, right? Like if you're interviewing for a job and you're like, hey, tell me a little bit more about like, you know, how your current employees think about working here or whatever, and you're able to have data, you're able to say here's how we do it and here's like, here's how we process it. And if you have issues, like, you know, here's how we're going to address them, right?
To me, that's a huge marketing opportunity from like, you know, just a recruitment perspective. And I think that's another issue that we see in dentistry is like, hey, like there's a lot of organizations are having challenges just recruiting, not even keeping people there necessarily, but then certainly recruiting into those positions. Give me your perspective on then how, you know, kind of leading organizations are taking this data and saying, here's why we're better different, you know, than the organization down the street.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's about a year ago, it kind of surprised me when one of my clients was addressing their staff, and they said, you know, we're gonna, as it relates to workplace culture, like, we're gonna do this the trust centric way. It was like, wait, wow, like that was like this articulation of they're all in, and it's not, it's not trust centric, the company, it's no, they are keeping trust at the center of everything that they do.
I have the privilege of in that season, providing resources and tools to help them in that. But like, that has now become their ethos. That's their North Star is, they literally want to be trust centric in their approach, in their decision making, in their hiring, in their strategy.
And so, you know, we've got tools, you and I have talked about this. We're developing this kind of this comprehensive roadmap for people to walk through this, to activate these tools and these resources to create opportunities for dialogue, for there to be kind of real time check ins, some tools and resources that leaders and teams can use. And then as they do that, it will be something that signals to the rest of the organization that this is what they're committed to doing.
And then absolutely, we can do it in a way to where they can say, look, this is what we've been all about. This is the type of organization that we have. And we've seen meaningful change because of our commitment to this work.
So good, man. OK, so I'm sure people are going to want to go read your book. I'm sure people are going to want to find out more about you and TrustCentric.
Obviously, like we can talk about it as well, right? Because we've productized some of this for the dental industry into DifferentKind. But tell us a little bit more where they can go to learn specifically about you, TrustCentric, read the book, whatever it might be.
You bet.
Yeah.
The book is on Amazon and would be honored if you picked up a copy. And then the website is trustcentricconsulting.com. And I'm also pretty active on LinkedIn as well.
And if you want to connect, that would be great. I would be happy to connect with you on LinkedIn. And happy to share anything else via direct message or email, or if anybody ever wants to hop on a quick Zoom call, happy to talk through that through a Discovery session too.
But yeah, the more and more I do this work, the more I realize that leaders need language that is different to be able to talk about culture. They need a framework that's proven so that it is objective. And they need to elevate this as one of their most critical priorities.
And when organizations do this, this really becomes ultimately their greatest advantage. Because it differentiates them from so many other organizations. It's one of the mantras that I share with people is that this work, like this is not rocket science.
Like this isn't rocket science. This is a universal truth. But when people embrace it, when teams embrace it, it becomes really revolutionary for their culture.
I love it, man. Well, hey, how about this? This is again, not something we talked about, but I'm guessing you're willing to do this.
For anyone who's listening, and if you want a copy of the book, DifferentKind will personally buy you a copy of the book. Cory will sign it, and we will send it out to you. So send me a DM, send me an email if you're listening.
You're like, hey, I actually want a copy of that. We will get it for you. Just let me know.
And I will have Cory sign it. And we'll make sure that you get a copy of the book if you want one.
I'm happy to do that. That's awesome. Yeah.
So we want to promote that in terms of folks getting this information into their hands. And one of the things that we haven't even talked about at all, you have some amazing resources like if you go on TrustCentric, like some amazing resources, videos, stuff that you can watch that are really meaningful and easy to digest for folks. And so we can certainly talk with you more.
If you are in a dental organization, we can talk specifically more about how you can leverage some of that into this work as well. So Cory, just so grateful for you as a person, so grateful for the chance to work with you in this way to hopefully make oral health care more human, right? Because ultimately, when people go to see dental practices, when they go to dental practices and meet the people at those dental practices who trust what's happening at a leadership level and who are committed and who have been there and who know the systems and who do all of that stuff, know the policies, right?
They are going to receive better, more effective care. And so I certainly believe that to be true. And so thank you for your partnership, for your help in that.
We're just really grateful.
Well, thank you as well. And thanks for just the privilege to be on the podcast with you. It's been a lot of fun.

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